Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2024 5:52:06 GMT
GrauniadUsing an opinion piece in the Sun to talk up NHS privatisation and railing at "middle class lefties", now what party does that sound like?
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 19, 2024 10:50:57 GMT
Streeting has got that dead right
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Post by brownlow on Jul 19, 2024 12:47:11 GMT
GrauniadUsing an opinion piece in the Sun to talk up NHS privatisation and railing at "middle class lefties", now what party does that sound like?
It sounds like Thatcherism, with the worst of its faults. Private for-profit firms do not keep an army of idle professionals on their payrolls, just waiting for Wes's call (as the CEO of a private healthcare provider said the other day in FT).
It also sounds like more PFI. There is no free lunch. The govt can always borrow more cheaply than anyone else in the economy. If private investors stump up money, they will want more back than the yield on a Treasury bond - otherwise they'd just BUY Treasury bonds, risk free. Duh!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2024 4:46:18 GMT
Streeting has got that dead right Yet you chide "Daily Express readers" while insinuating I'm exactly like that in other threads, but when Streeting literally posts an opinion piece in the Sun railing against middle-class lefties, he gets the benefit of the doubt Interesting
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2024 8:40:43 GMT
As a working class lefty, Labour ministers railing against lefties of any class in - of all places - the Sun, is going to go down like a lead balloon. But I am also aware of the frequent centrist modus operandi of tailoring their message to suit their audience, in this case Sun readers. He might well have said the same basic thing with very different language in the Guardian. Labour centrists have always tailored their message to suit their audience. Blair was a master at this, able on the one hand to convince the CBI that he was a Thatcherite convert, whilst on the other convincing the TUC that he was a latter day socialist, though in the end neither believed him anymore, lol. But for a while it worked.
I don't like the language used in the Sun. Limited use of the private sector when this is quicker and cheaper is fair enough until the NHS gets sorted out. If I needed an operation, as long as I still didn't need to pay for it, if I could get it done much quicker privately I would take it, especially if in pain. Most people would.
But we need to be aware that the private sector is there to make money, pay dividends to shareholders based upon maximised profits, with fat cat salaries by way of encouragement. They are not there as a low cost charitable alternative. When it comes to getting more bang for our bucks, the NHS itself needs greater investment, because the private sector alternative will end up costing us more in the long run. PFI has served to demonstrate that. Wes Streeting himself has been too close to private sector healthcare providers and there is some risk that he has in part gone native on that score. He needs to be certain that he is serving the interests of the people first and foremost, and not his private healthcare buddies.
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Post by patman post on Jul 30, 2024 14:31:19 GMT
I suspect faced with incapacity and delays over treatment in NHS, many people would opt to go privately if they can afford it. Individuals interviewed in 2010 were the most satisfied with how the NHS is run, with 70 percent saying they are 'very or quite satisfied', this share dropped to 24 percent in 2023, the lowest in the provided time interval. This statistic presents how satisfied or dissatisfied individuals are with the way in which the NHS is run in the United Kingdom (UK) from 2000 to 2023.
Can anyone suggest what's caused this drastic drop in satisfaction — specifically over the last five years...?
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Post by Zany on Jul 30, 2024 15:20:49 GMT
GrauniadUsing an opinion piece in the Sun to talk up NHS privatisation and railing at "middle class lefties", now what party does that sound like?
It sounds like Thatcherism, with the worst of its faults. Private for-profit firms do not keep an army of idle professionals on their payrolls, just waiting for Wes's call (as the CEO of a private healthcare provider said the other day in FT).
It also sounds like more PFI. There is no free lunch. The govt can always borrow more cheaply than anyone else in the economy. If private investors stump up money, they will want more back than the yield on a Treasury bond - otherwise they'd just BUY Treasury bonds, risk free. Duh!
On the other hand the problem is NOW and the new NHS hospitals are FUTURE. More important to get all those people treated and back to contributing before we look at ideology.
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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 2, 2024 18:18:54 GMT
As a working class lefty, Labour ministers railing against lefties of any class in - of all places - the Sun, is going to go down like a lead balloon. But I am also aware of the frequent centrist modus operandi of tailoring their message to suit their audience, in this case Sun readers. He might well have said the same basic thing with very different language in the Guardian. Labour centrists have always tailored their message to suit their audience. Blair was a master at this, able on the one hand to convince the CBI that he was a Thatcherite convert, whilst on the other convincing the TUC that he was a latter day socialist, though in the end neither believed him anymore, lol. But for a while it worked. I don't like the language used in the Sun. Limited use of the private sector when this is quicker and cheaper is fair enough until the NHS gets sorted out. If I needed an operation, as long as I still didn't need to pay for it, if I could get it done much quicker privately I would take it, especially if in pain. Most people would. But we need to be aware that the private sector is there to make money, pay dividends to shareholders based upon maximised profits, with fat cat salaries by way of encouragement. They are not there as a low cost charitable alternative. When it comes to getting more bang for our bucks, the NHS itself needs greater investment, because the private sector alternative will end up costing us more in the long run. PFI has served to demonstrate that. Wes Streeting himself has been too close to private sector healthcare providers and there is some risk that he has in part gone native on that score. He needs to be certain that he is serving the interests of the people first and foremost, and not his private healthcare buddies. I don't think you can fairly argue that private sector health care will always cost more using PFI as a case point. Abad contract is a bad contract in any environment and that was the case with PFI. The NHS always SHOULD be cheaper because it doesn't have to pay dividends so it ends up being a question of whether the private sector can be more efficient.I would say you probably can't realistically measure efficiency across all health care though prevention is usually cheaper than cure so maybe that should be NHS focus
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 2, 2024 21:25:54 GMT
The history of private v nationalised work is the former looks to greater efficiency and the latter looks to maintaining norms even if inefficient. Dividends are such a low % that they just don't make any real difference. The issue is whether the cost efficiency of private is worth the arguably higher potential risks of poor outcomes.
The basic contract with the people that healthcare if free is rightly a nationalised commitment but that doesn't mean that all the myriad of parts of the NHS have all to be nationalised too. No sane person would suggest the NHS should only use ambulances designed, built, serviced and fuelled by nationalised departments would they.
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Post by Zany on Aug 3, 2024 0:08:02 GMT
The history of private v nationalised work is the former looks to greater efficiency and the latter looks to maintaining norms even if inefficient. Dividends are such a low % that they just don't make any real difference. The issue is whether the cost efficiency of private is worth the arguably higher potential risks of poor outcomes. The basic contract with the people that healthcare if free is rightly a nationalised commitment but that doesn't mean that all the myriad of parts of the NHS have all to be nationalised too. No sane person would suggest the NHS should only use ambulances designed, built, serviced and fuelled by nationalised departments would they. And yet the privatest of healthcare services being America is colossally more expensive per outcome.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2024 7:06:56 GMT
It's just the same poisonous/failed Neoliberal ideology Nu lab pushed - which led to unaffordable PFIs and hospitals owing huge amounts to private companies. Someone remind me of Cherie Blair's interests in private health and her shares in such?
Oh goodness, this must qualify as trolling and should be deleted on sight, can't challenge the argument so censorship must be sought at the earliest opportunity. Quick, get everything covered up!
Please do try not to keep insulting me in this way its unnecessary and derails the threads.
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Post by Zany on Aug 3, 2024 8:36:44 GMT
It's just the same poisonous/failed Neoliberal ideology Nu lab pushed - which led to unaffordable PFIs and hospitals owing huge amounts to private companies. Someone remind me of Cherie Blair's interests in private health and her shares in such? Oh goodness, this must qualify as trolling and should be deleted on sight, can't challenge the argument so censorship must be sought at the earliest opportunity. Quick, get everything covered up! Has anyone in Labour suggested we build further private services? As far as I know they are talking about using the ones that have developed under the previous government as a stop gap until we can fix the NHS.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2024 0:07:51 GMT
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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 14, 2024 14:23:21 GMT
Makes me think once again that I would really like to see all party donations banned or perhaps a low limit on them although I suspect it's impractical
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2024 16:20:59 GMT
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