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Post by Zany on Jul 23, 2024 18:21:36 GMT
That's a good link. It says Government, local authorities and the charging infrastructure sector deserve credit for the more than 3,000% growth in public charging infrastructure since the first charge points were installed in 2011.It goes on to say;
However, every single reputable study or consumer survey have invariably and consistently shown that the inadequacy of infrastructure provision is still a concern for many consumers. This is the feelings of people, not necessarily to experience of EV owners. Unfortunately the figures for growth in the article are out of date As plug-in vehicle registrations surged, public charging infrastructure expansion has failed to keep pace. Plug-in cars on the road had grown a phenomenal 280.3% between 2019 and 2021,At this time UK has almost 1m EV chargers, with new public one installed every 25 minutes.
www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jul/15/electric-vehicle-ev-chargers-uk-installations#:~:text=Automotive%20industry-,UK%20has%20almost%201m%20EV%20chargers%2C%20with%20new,one%20installed%20every%2025%20minutes&text=There%20are%20now%20almost%201m,increasing%20sales%20of%20battery%20vehicles. right but as Steve said , the ratio is getting worse ?
UK’s car to public charge point ratio worsens despite EV push
February 5, 2024
Editorial Board EVBoosters
The United Kingdom’s ambition to become a leader in electric vehicle (EV) adoption faces significant hurdles as a recent report from the House of Lords highlights a deteriorating ratio of cars to public charge points across the country from 2019 to 2022. Titled “EV Strategy: Rapid Recharge Needed”, the comprehensive study underscores the growing challenge of providing adequate charging infrastructure to meet the rising demand for electric vehicles.
According to the analysis, conducted by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) and based on Department for Transport data, every region in the UK has seen the ratio of Charge Points to EVs worsen over the specified period.
evboosters.com/ev-charging-news/uks-car-to-public-charge-point-ratio-worsens-despite-ev-push/
in this article here it says a third of the uks chargers are out of order , which heightens range anxiety and is one of the reason cited why hybrids are more popular than full EV...
WHY ARE SO MANY UK EV CHARGERS BROKEN? EXPERT DISCUSSES THE NEED FOR PROPER MAINTENANCE WITHIN EV CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE
With as much as 30 per cent of charge points being out of order in parts of the UK, it’s natural to wonder what the root cause of the issue is – an issue that becomes even more problematic if we consider the already critical need to expand existing charging infrastructure.
www.electricaltimes.co.uk/why-are-so-many-uk-ev-chargers-broken-expert-discusses-the-need-for-proper-maintenance-within-electrical-vehicle-charging-infrastructure/And as Pat said, with range growing the percentage of chargers to vehicles can fall and yet still be improving. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 23, 2024 18:59:59 GMT
2023 was the best year for new electric car sales with 314,687 new EV registrations – up from 267,204 in 2022.
(that's a 17.8% increase in sales**).
At the end of June 2024, there were 64,775 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 33,829 charging locations.
This represents a year-on-year increase of 46%** in the number of public devices, with 20,367 installed since June 2023.
**Not exactly year on year comparisons, but comparable enough to show a distinct decrease in number of EVs per public charging point.
Given that the growth in the number of public chargers is outstripping the growth in EV sales, and distances travelled per charge is growing, I guess we have to expect some new taxes to compensate for the loss of revenue raised by taxes and duties on fossil fuelled vehicles...
Thanks for that - I stand corrected at least for 2023. Maybe it's turned a corner in the last 12 months but that would follow years of it being bad. This article suggests that 2023 may have been a blip though with serious challenges in electric infrastructure and above all funding www.sms-plc.com/insights/challenges-for-the-uk-ev-charging-industry-2024/ |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2024 20:22:39 GMT
We are already seeing the backlash gather pace against green policy aimed at hammering the working class. Trump in America is already talking about scrapping Ev car policy , as he knows it's a vote winner , and his mate Farage will certainly follow suit if he hasn't already over here. If the future is green then we need sensible policy that has everyone on board and is affordable , not blind ideology and government not listening. if im not mistaken new lorries are already exempt from the 2030 ban ( or is it 2035....labour haven't clarified) so the climbdown has already begun , and expect more backtracking as time goes by. I agree to an extent. I think net zero has been misused by councils and the London mayor to put unpopular speed limits in place and to charge people huge taxes to get from A to B. These restrictions have very little effect on climate change and are more about local pollution and money making. They should say this and not hide behind climate change. EV's are not yet foisted upon anyone as yet and will not be for another 10 years at least, most of the current issues will be fixed by then. Other schemes like heat pumps have also been delayed because of the mess our economy is in. Not sure if you think climate change is real, man made, or a concern. But from my point of the reason we are under so much pressure to change quickly now because we did nothing for 20 plus years after we were told about the issue and its potentially catastrophic effects. It is only now as we begin to see the monetary cost of these effects becoming reality in our own countries that governments are rushing to make the changes needed to slow it. Can I ask, have you ever discussed the costs to the poor of not stopping climate change? By example the tax needed to rebuild the sea defences all around the Essex coast because of higher anomalous tides etc. You say most of the current issues will be fixed by then (ten years from now) but have not said how. Because you don't know. You just assume it will somehow be done, That is blind faith par excellence. All the practical problems I and many others not unreasonably put out there because they are central to our own circumstances are just seen as us being purposely difficult, rather than us presenting valid problems and asking how these will be resolved. You have no answers beyond blind faith that it will all somehow work out. Who knows, it might. But without it being explained how to the rest of us mere mortals, the blind faith of true believers will remain unpersuasive. And intentional or not, an earlier post of yours in response to me came across as most condescending. Condescension towards those on low incomes is risky territory for someone whose business model is almost entirely built upon minimum wages and zero hour contracts |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 23, 2024 20:34:49 GMT
Yes we have built (mostly by accident) a society that needs most people to have a car because overwhelmingly you need one to get to and decent paid work. But we can't afford a society where everyone has a nice house with a drive to park and charge an EV and that's IF they can afford the charger.
It would be a massive mistake if while affecting to do the right thing we actually further make it a them and us dystopia.
We should be looking at Hydrogen and synthetic fuels as much as EVs. But of course the powers that be have EV blinkers on and that bizarre delusion that ending emissions from cars will end emissions from trucks.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2024 20:37:01 GMT
climate change is real .The question is , is it man made or natural. The jury is out , but im open minded . However , irrespective of the argument behind that , no person on earth is going to accept being poorer colder and worse off. Nor are populations going to accept piss taking politicians hiding behind climate arguments to clobber the working classes with excessive taxes. we can see for example from the introduction of Glasgows ulez for example , ( emissions in Glasgow are already far better than they were 60 yeas ago without ulez)how it disproportionately clobbers working class people with older cars and vans . People are open to new technology , i certainly am , but no one is going to make themselves poorer , and more inconvenienced , to appease a problem that may or may not exist. I find it all similar to the covid argument. take an existing sniffle , greatly exaggerate it , close down society and bring in restrictive policies and promote fear , ( while the politicians and the rich party) and expect the public to tag along without thought. Hold on a minute. You can't start your post with ''climate change is real'' and end it with '' a problem that may or may not exist''. Pick a side mate. Climate change is definitely real. And the evidence that at least some of it is being caused by us is pretty overwhelming now. So I disagree with the doubts about it. But effectively challenging our own behaviour which is in part at least causing it, needs to be done in a way that works for everybody and not just the better off. And to convince us we need it to be explained how. Ever more charging points is not going to be the effective solution without it being explained how this can be viable in heavily urbanised terraced housing or high rise flats. You can put out as many charging points as you like. Without it being demonstrated how I can have one reliably placed with no one else parking there, then access is going to be highly unreliable for me. Which in practice threatens to mean my loss of ability to drive to suit your agenda. And of course I am not buying it. You might be okay with your driveway and your garage but that kind of I'm all right jack cuts no ice with me. I sometimes suspect that some of you have a hidden agenda implicit in your aims, namely pricing the poor off the roads and making them less congested for more exalted mortals such as yourself. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2024 20:47:46 GMT
when you say EVs , does that include hybrids , as we discussed up the page aren't a viable long term alternative to petrol and diesel? 4/5 fully electric vehicles sold or leased are fleet vehicles , as central governments are encouraging companies to go green with massive subsidies and incentives. Take that away , and how many EV sales is the lowly man in the street making? Stellantis could stop producing vehicles in the UK within a year, if the Government doesn’t take action to stimulate demand for electric vehicles (EV).
Speaking at a Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) conference in London, Stellantis UK head Maria Grazia Davino said the business will evaluate alternative locations for production if the UK market becomes “hostile”.
“Range anxiety, poor charging infrastructure, and the price of electric cars have meant the demand for fully electric vehicles has slowed down in the UK — as elsewhere — so many auto manufacturers not only face huge penalties starting this year, with these penalties growing rapidly annually till 2030
www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/stellantis-threatens-to-end-uk-production-over-poor-ev-incentives#:~:text=“Range%20anxiety%2C%20poor%20charging%20infrastructure,annually%20till%202030%20when%20the
The proportion of battery electric vehicles sold in the UK car market has shrunk, according to new industry figures.
Some 15.2% of new cars registered in March were pure electrics, down from 16.2% during the same period last year, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said.
The industry body said the "tough economic backdrop" of low growth, weak consumer confidence and high interest rates was making it harder for drivers to "invest in these new technologies".
Year-on-year sales of electric vehicles (EVs) did rise during the month, but this was mostly driven by fleet investment, rather than from private drivers, the SMMT said.
news.sky.com/story/electric-car-uk-market-share-shrinks-figures-suggest-13107632
1% down is pretty good considering the economy. Though I suspect the deeper story is that electric cars are bought by wealthier people who have been hit les by mortgage hikes. Anecdotal I know but amongst all my friends and relatives, only one of them drives an EV. And that's the one that happens to be rich, with of course driveways and garages at every property she owns including her holiday home. This and your own belief that they are mostly being bought by the wealthy - which probably includes you - itself speaks volumes. The rich will make it viable for themselves whilst the poor just have to get out of the way. Problem is, we are a democracy and the poor have a vote. And there will be a huge political backlash if this starts to happen. It will be an absolute gift to that shit magnet Farage. |
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Post by montegriffo on Jul 23, 2024 22:10:28 GMT
Of course it's the rich who are the early adapters. It is with any new technology.
The thing is though, it's only new ICE car sales that are going to be banned. I've never bought a new car in my life and a modern car will last 20 years if looked after so it could be 25 years before EVs are the only choice. If they are still too expensive for the poor by then I'll eat my hat.
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Post by Amadan on Jul 24, 2024 6:14:42 GMT
when you say EVs , does that include hybrids , as we discussed up the page aren't a viable long term alternative to petrol and diesel? 4/5 fully electric vehicles sold or leased are fleet vehicles , as central governments are encouraging companies to go green with massive subsidies and incentives. Take that away , and how many EV sales is the lowly man in the street making? Though I suspect the deeper story is that electric cars are bought by wealthier people who have been hit les by mortgage hikes. we have discussed this before , your excuse that the economy and all its woes are to blame for poor EV sales (excluding hybrids) A few wealthy people aren't going to bankroll the surge needed for ev sales across the western world to meet climate targets are they? The fact is , sales have slowed across the western world , are not hitting targets of where they need to be to meet climate targets , and 4/5 of current sales and leases are being driven by business being subsidised or enticed into buying them. Without these subsidies and tax breaks propping these poor sales up , they dont appear popular. The reason for that isnt economic woes , but lack of affordability , practicality and all the stuff mentioned in this thread. Fully ev simply dont add up as things stand. |
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Post by Amadan on Jul 24, 2024 6:22:34 GMT
Hold on a minute. You can't start your post with ''climate change is real'' and end it with '' a problem that may or may not exist''. Pick a side mate. Climate change is definitely real. the point is though Steve how many times do we see the discussion revert to "the science" , which is used as a shield to broker no dissent or debate , .....basically stop moaning , shut up and take one on the chin for the planet type of thing ( this isnt directed at monte) You are fully on board with global warming being man made , im slightly more skeptical but open to persuasion , but look how both of our concerns have been dismissed in this thread about Evs by climate alarmists. It does not matter how much alarmists fear monger , if they dont have the population on board by addressing their concerns , evs are doomed to fail , as well as much else like the pathetic heat pumps. Take away fleet vehicles and government subsidies , and a few rich men and their toys , and the short term diversion of hybrids , and evs are not popular across the western world. The argument for them simply doesn't stack up as things stand. |
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Post by Amadan on Jul 24, 2024 6:36:39 GMT
Of course it's the rich who are the early adapters. It is with any new technology. The thing is though, it's only new ICE car sales that are going to be banned. I've never bought a new car in my life and a modern car will last 20 years if looked after so it could be 25 years before EVs are the only choice. If they are still too expensive for the poor by then I'll eat my hat. im not convinced by your argument monte. The CCC has said the uk ( and elsewhere) needs to speed up lowering emissions , not plod along allowing folk to drive old cars and vans until they become obsolete. We have already seen the tories backtrack on the new ICE vehicle ban. First of all they exempted trucks , then they pushed back the date to 2035 , and now labour appear to be dithering while climate lobbyists and groups demand they ditch the tory plans and speed up progress to net zero to try and meet the 2050 target. There seems to be a hell of a lot of excuses being made , including kicking the argument into the long grass and letting time solve the problems. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 24, 2024 7:35:36 GMT
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,698
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2024 8:42:10 GMT
Of course it's the rich who are the early adapters. It is with any new technology. The thing is though, it's only new ICE car sales that are going to be banned. I've never bought a new car in my life and a modern car will last 20 years if looked after so it could be 25 years before EVs are the only choice. If they are still too expensive for the poor by then I'll eat my hat. im not convinced by your argument monte. The CCC has said the uk ( and elsewhere) needs to speed up lowering emissions , not plod along allowing folk to drive old cars and vans until they become obsolete. We have already seen the tories backtrack on the new ICE vehicle ban. First of all they exempted trucks , then they pushed back the date to 2035 , and now labour appear to be dithering while climate lobbyists and groups demand they ditch the tory plans and speed up progress to net zero to try and meet the 2050 target. There seems to be a hell of a lot of excuses being made , including kicking the argument into the long grass and letting time solve the problems. Soon (if not already) we're going to see car manufacturers selling EVs at a loss to meet the mandatory quotas so they can continue to sell the petrol powered cars people actually want. And if they further strangle petrol car build, the price of second hand cars is going to really climb making MOT passable cars unaffordable for many. The obvious measure the government could use is to seriously ramp up fuel tax but it's electoral suicide so that won't happen any time soon. Expect to see them putting dates back but essentially keep to the Stalinist 'no you can't have this vehicle' approach that suits the rich and really hurts the poor. |
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Post by patman post on Jul 24, 2024 11:14:13 GMT
2023 was the best year for new electric car sales with 314,687 new EV registrations – up from 267,204 in 2022.
(that's a 17.8% increase in sales**).
At the end of June 2024, there were 64,775 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 33,829 charging locations.
This represents a year-on-year increase of 46%** in the number of public devices, with 20,367 installed since June 2023.
**Not exactly year on year comparisons, but comparable enough to show a distinct decrease in number of EVs per public charging point.
Given that the growth in the number of public chargers is outstripping the growth in EV sales, and distances travelled per charge is growing, I guess we have to expect some new taxes to compensate for the loss of revenue raised by taxes and duties on fossil fuelled vehicles...
when you say EVs , does that include hybrids , as we discussed up the page aren't a viable long term alternative to petrol and diesel? 4/5 fully electric vehicles sold or leased are fleet vehicles , as central governments are encouraging companies to go green with massive subsidies and incentives. Take that away , and how many EV sales is the lowly man in the street making? Stellantis could stop producing vehicles in the UK within a year, if the Government doesn’t take action to stimulate demand for electric vehicles (EV).
Speaking at a Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) conference in London, Stellantis UK head Maria Grazia Davino said the business will evaluate alternative locations for production if the UK market becomes “hostile”.
“Range anxiety, poor charging infrastructure, and the price of electric cars have meant the demand for fully electric vehicles has slowed down in the UK — as elsewhere — so many auto manufacturers not only face huge penalties starting this year, with these penalties growing rapidly annually till 2030
www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/stellantis-threatens-to-end-uk-production-over-poor-ev-incentives#:~:text=“Range%20anxiety%2C%20poor%20charging%20infrastructure,annually%20till%202030%20when%20the
The proportion of battery electric vehicles sold in the UK car market has shrunk, according to new industry figures.
Some 15.2% of new cars registered in March were pure electrics, down from 16.2% during the same period last year, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said.
The industry body said the "tough economic backdrop" of low growth, weak consumer confidence and high interest rates was making it harder for drivers to "invest in these new technologies".
Year-on-year sales of electric vehicles (EVs) did rise during the month, but this was mostly driven by fleet investment, rather than from private drivers, the SMMT said.
news.sky.com/story/electric-car-uk-market-share-shrinks-figures-suggest-13107632Not all hybrids are plug-in, and none are totally dependent on electric power. So when I wasn’t including hybrids when I referred to EVs. Most sales of new vehicles are usually to fleet operators. For 2024 year to date, fleet sales were 600,404, and private sales 382,887.** Overall YTD diesels sales were down 12%, while petrol 2.7% up, battery EV 9.2% up, plug in hybrid 31.2%, plain hybrid 15.2% up.** ** www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/It seems that the move away from fossil-fuelled vehicles is quickening. It’s not surprising that business/commercial/fleet purchasers — led by cost concerns — are leading this move… |
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Post by Zany on Jul 24, 2024 14:46:04 GMT
im not convinced by your argument monte. The CCC has said the uk ( and elsewhere) needs to speed up lowering emissions , not plod along allowing folk to drive old cars and vans until they become obsolete. We have already seen the tories backtrack on the new ICE vehicle ban. First of all they exempted trucks , then they pushed back the date to 2035 , and now labour appear to be dithering while climate lobbyists and groups demand they ditch the tory plans and speed up progress to net zero to try and meet the 2050 target. There seems to be a hell of a lot of excuses being made , including kicking the argument into the long grass and letting time solve the problems. Soon (if not already) we're going to see car manufacturers selling EVs at a loss to meet the mandatory quotas so they can continue to sell the petrol powered cars people actually want. And if they further strangle petrol car build, the price of second hand cars is going to really climb making MOT passable cars unaffordable for many. The obvious measure the government could use is to seriously ramp up fuel tax but it's electoral suicide so that won't happen any time soon. Expect to see them putting dates back but essentially keep to the Stalinist 'no you can't have this vehicle' approach that suits the rich and really hurts the poor. They could put tax tariffs on ICE vehicle sales and use the money to discount EV's. Rather depends on how important you think climate change is and as a government how much it will cost to do nothing about it. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,698
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2024 14:55:43 GMT
Soon (if not already) we're going to see car manufacturers selling EVs at a loss to meet the mandatory quotas so they can continue to sell the petrol powered cars people actually want. And if they further strangle petrol car build, the price of second hand cars is going to really climb making MOT passable cars unaffordable for many. The obvious measure the government could use is to seriously ramp up fuel tax but it's electoral suicide so that won't happen any time soon. Expect to see them putting dates back but essentially keep to the Stalinist 'no you can't have this vehicle' approach that suits the rich and really hurts the poor. They could put tax tariffs on ICE vehicle sales and use the money to discount EV's. Rather depends on how important you think climate change is and as a government how much it will cost to do nothing about it. Yes they could and it would have same effect of making MOT legal second hand ICE car prices go through the roof. As I've said before I believe that MMGW is a highly probable truth and we would be wildly reckless to not take serious action. But I also believe in democracy and while any doubt exists we should tread carefully and consistently. We're not seeing that, we're seeing governments making BIG net zero promises and dishonestly supposing that policies attacking car users are enough. But we do need to at least buy time by drastically cutting the Carbon emissions until there is proof either way on the issue. So for now I defend actions that actually lead to international net zero by 2050. |
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