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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 6:46:20 GMT
Once again the government are following my suggestions. Many times over the last couple of years I have been saying the reason planning hits the NIMBY's is because the only place you can apply for planning is in someone's back yard (The village envelope) I kept saying that greenbelt implied beautiful rural English wooded country lanes, but in reality meant this.  Now Labour have announced they have consulted Zany and are opening planning to Grey belt.  |
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Post by vinny on Jul 8, 2024 10:42:17 GMT
Huge amounts of immigration since the 1990's have necessitated house building.
BUT, building on farmland, false economy.
Building on previously industrial land?
Doesn't create job opportunities.
We need to avoid building slums.
We need to build industry.
The best way to achieve mass employment is via manufacturing.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 8, 2024 10:48:27 GMT
Once again the government are following my suggestions. Many times over the last couple of years I have been saying the reason planning hits the NIMBY's is because the only place you can apply for planning is in someone's back yard (The village envelope) I kept saying that greenbelt implied beautiful rural English wooded country lanes, but in reality meant this. Now Labour have announced they have consulted Zany and are opening planning to Grey belt. How much land does that actually release and how many homes could be built on it? |
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Post by montegriffo on Jul 8, 2024 11:15:15 GMT
There would be no shortage of land if people would simply eat less meat.
40% of our most productive farmland grows wheat for livestock.
Millions of acres.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 8, 2024 11:16:43 GMT
There would be no shortage of land if people would simply eat less meat. 40% of our most productive farmland grows wheat for livestock. Millions of acres. Wouldn't we then need those 'millions of acres' to grow more non meat food? |
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Post by montegriffo on Jul 8, 2024 11:32:23 GMT
There would be no shortage of land if people would simply eat less meat. 40% of our most productive farmland grows wheat for livestock. Millions of acres. Wouldn't we then need those 'millions of acres' to grow more non meat food? No. Meat production (and dairy) is much more inefficient. It takes up to 100 times as much land to produce the same amount of protein as plant based diets. Meat production should be limited to land unsuitable for anything else. ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets Check the chart in this link. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 8, 2024 11:44:56 GMT
Wouldn't we then need those 'millions of acres' to grow more non meat food? No. Meat production (and dairy) is much more inefficient. It takes up to 100 times as much land to produce the same amount of protein as plant based diets. Meat production should be limited to land unsuitable for anything else. ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets Check the chart in this link. Pro Boards duff software corrupted that link it's ourworldindata.org/land-use-dietsAnd as it itself says: 'Of course the type of land used to raise cows or sheep is not the same as cropland for cereals, potatoes or beans. Livestock can be raised on pasture grasslands, or on steep hills where it is not possible to grow crops. Two-thirds of pastures are unsuitable for growing crops'And it doesn't really support your 100 times figure. It talks to 75% less. As a country we are strategically very weak on food supply so we should be maintaining rather than reducing our farmland stock. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 12:01:40 GMT
Huge amounts of immigration since the 1990's have necessitated house building. BUT, building on farmland, false economy. Building on previously industrial land? Doesn't create job opportunities. We need to avoid building slums. We need to build industry. The best way to achieve mass employment is via manufacturing. We're unlikely to become a manufacturing nation again, unless we can out-compete China and India, that will never happen. It's best to try and specialise and find our niche. The Tory idea of becoming Singapore-on-Thames and destroying all farming, all manufacturing completely is going too far in the other direction and should also be avoided, but there's a happy balance where we find our niche. We were well situated (well as good as it gets given this rotten system around the world we all live under) around 2010 before the Tories decided to start the Brexit ball rolling. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 12:09:58 GMT
There would be no shortage of land if people would simply eat less meat. 40% of our most productive farmland grows wheat for livestock. Millions of acres. There needs to be real vegan alternatives that actually give you enough energy the next day without leaving you feeling under-powered. If you look at the ingredients in impossible or beyond stuff over here, half of it is artificial additives that technically make it UPF (ultra processed food) On the other hand, most of the food here is contaminated with sewage sludge as they spread that over farmland, it contains high amounts of heavy metals and PFAS, among all kinds of other horrible rubbish. They use sewage sludge in the UK too now, apparently. And yes meat requires lots of farmland. For a brief time in the UK, I found places that did palatable and reasonable vegan food and was eating that everyday, that was tempeh (fermented tofu; flavoured with soy sauce), but you can't eat beans and bean curd every single day, that's one of the only reasonable sources of protein from vegan foods you can get. If you want to raise less cows (and chickens if you're against battery farming) then say goodbye also to milk, cheese, eggs. I don't know how you replace those things either, I hate soy milk and I hate almond milk with a passion, there's no goodness in oat, rice and other types of milk and they are a waste of space |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 8, 2024 12:14:17 GMT
Quorn is good
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 12:30:08 GMT
I used to eat it sometimes in England, but only a few products of theirs have enough protein. Some of them have something like 9% protein which isn't enough.
They don't sell the Quorn products with 15%+ protein here in America from my looking around in Publix, Kroger and Aldi (and online). I've noticed much of the beef also has much less protein here and is much higher in fat too, unfortunately, same with the chicken..
"On sale" you can get 1lb of ground beef with 20% fat for about $5, in England you can get 5% fat beef for $4.48.
No comparison........
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 12:39:33 GMT
There would be no shortage of land if people would simply eat less meat. 40% of our most productive farmland grows wheat for livestock. Millions of acres. Frankly there's no shortage now. We would need to build on less than 1% of greenbelt to provide a million homes. Not against eating less meat. We eat a lot of fish these days along with some veg only meals, which are delicious. Eat meat once or twice a week now. Add to this my idea (You listening Sir Kier?) that our vegetables should move into blocks of flats and let the humans enjoy the open fields. |
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Post by patman post on Jul 8, 2024 12:40:03 GMT
Huge amounts of immigration since the 1990's have necessitated house building. BUT, building on farmland, false economy. Building on previously industrial land? Doesn't create job opportunities. We need to avoid building slums. We need to build industry. The best way to achieve mass employment is via manufacturing. Remove the unreasonable impediments to house building and that could be a quick shot in the arm for UK industry — the building and the infrastructure, civil engineering, building products, etc, could all eventually use a UK workforce and production facilities… |
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Post by montegriffo on Jul 8, 2024 12:49:56 GMT
There would be no shortage of land if people would simply eat less meat. 40% of our most productive farmland grows wheat for livestock. Millions of acres. There needs to be real vegan alternatives that actually give you enough energy the next day without leaving you feeling under-powered. If you look at the ingredients in impossible or beyond stuff over here, half of it is artificial additives that technically make it UPF (ultra processed food) On the other hand, most of the food here is contaminated with sewage sludge as they spread that over farmland, it contains high amounts of heavy metals and PFAS, among all kinds of other horrible rubbish. They use sewage sludge in the UK too now, apparently. And yes meat requires lots of farmland. For a brief time in the UK, I found places that did palatable and reasonable vegan food and was eating that everyday, that was tempeh (fermented tofu; flavoured with soy sauce), but you can't eat beans and bean curd every single day, that's one of the only reasonable sources of protein from vegan foods you can get. If you want to raise less cows (and chickens if you're against battery farming) then say goodbye also to milk, cheese, eggs. I don't know how you replace those things either, I hate soy milk and I hate almond milk with a passion, there's no goodness in oat, rice and other types of milk and they are a waste of space Dairy farming is a more efficient method of meat production. Let the dairy cows graze the land unfit for arable and raise the male calves and excess females for meat. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 12:51:33 GMT
Huge amounts of immigration since the 1990's have necessitated house building. BUT, building on farmland, false economy. Building on previously industrial land? Doesn't create job opportunities. We need to avoid building slums. We need to build industry. The best way to achieve mass employment is via manufacturing. The farm land is in my back yard (Nimby) It makes no difference whether you build in the village envelope or the green belt its still fields. Building on brown field sites is often not tenable, not because of cost, but things like sewage systems power supply road access. There was talk of converting old Debenhams into flats but the number of toilets and sewage connections left available in town centres killed the idea. I say knock down the Debenhams and build parks for the people and put the veg in soulless concrete flats. |
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