Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Jul 10, 2024 21:44:46 GMT
Employers NI is a tax on UK jobs, VAT is at least in part a tax on sending jobs overseas
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Post by Zany on Jul 11, 2024 7:54:54 GMT
Any of these suggested changes would need to be balanced elsewhere. We could look at raising VAT to offset the claim against labour. That would balance out VAT more evenly and also make imported goods more expensive. Its strange but Business taxes are about as regressive as you can get. You pay VAT even if you are losing money. Business rates are based on the size of building you are in, not how much you make. (So a pub pays more than a commodities trader) Employers NI and nest payments based on the workforce you need, not on your profit. (So a care home pays more than a corporate banker) But mostly none of it is based on earnings or ability to pay. You do make a case for reform of tax and as you agree it needs balancing out that's reasonable enough but how to balance it out becomes the question The answer quickly becomes obvious, tax profit, but then the argument is quickly stifled by claims the rich would all leave. The Laffer curve is rolled out (Even though its predictions have never happened) and each time taxes rise the Laffer curve is adjusted up a bit to suit. I see two paths forward. Either we lower our standard of living down to that of our competitors in the world market (China, India Middle East) Or we join a protective bloc with enough internal trade and buying power to dictate terms to those competitors. At the moment we are limping along maintaining our living standards only by continued immigration raising our GDP. Basically selling our land to foreigners for enough money to get through another year. Sorry if the above appears off topic, but being able to tax the companies that make their profit here without threat of them leaving very much depends on the above. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 11, 2024 7:59:02 GMT
Employers NI is a tax on UK jobs, VAT is at least in part a tax on sending jobs overseas Agreed. I would accept higher VAT in lieu of scrapping employers NI. I think something extra would need to be done to help the service industry (Mine I confess) because it faces the worst of all these. It needs large premises for smaller returns and more employees per pound earned. And VAT takes no account of these two higher costs. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Jul 11, 2024 8:15:19 GMT
You do make a case for reform of tax and as you agree it needs balancing out that's reasonable enough but how to balance it out becomes the question The answer quickly becomes obvious, tax profit, but then the argument is quickly stifled by claims the rich would all leave. The Laffer curve is rolled out (Even though its predictions have never happened) and each time taxes rise the Laffer curve is adjusted up a bit to suit. I see two paths forward. Either we lower our standard of living down to that of our competitors in the world market (China, India Middle East) Or we join a protective bloc with enough internal trade and buying power to dictate terms to those competitors. At the moment we are limping along maintaining our living standards only by continued immigration raising our GDP. Basically selling our land to foreigners for enough money to get through another year. Sorry if the above appears off topic, but being able to tax the companies that make their profit here without threat of them leaving very much depends on the above. I've never been confortable with taxing profit, better to tax money taken out of a company (ie dividends) and revenue (hence VAT) |
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Post by Zany on Jul 11, 2024 9:08:24 GMT
The answer quickly becomes obvious, tax profit, but then the argument is quickly stifled by claims the rich would all leave. The Laffer curve is rolled out (Even though its predictions have never happened) and each time taxes rise the Laffer curve is adjusted up a bit to suit. I see two paths forward. Either we lower our standard of living down to that of our competitors in the world market (China, India Middle East) Or we join a protective bloc with enough internal trade and buying power to dictate terms to those competitors. At the moment we are limping along maintaining our living standards only by continued immigration raising our GDP. Basically selling our land to foreigners for enough money to get through another year. Sorry if the above appears off topic, but being able to tax the companies that make their profit here without threat of them leaving very much depends on the above. I've never been confortable with taxing profit, better to tax money taken out of a company (ie dividends) and revenue (hence VAT) We might need to redefine profit. But taxing revenue is very uneven. As I say the revenue of a care home might be on a par with an insurance company, but the costs are far different. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Jul 11, 2024 9:13:25 GMT
Agreed but taxing profit is an incentive for companies to make technical losses. And don't get me on faux 'not for profit' companies.
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Post by Zany on Jul 11, 2024 9:52:26 GMT
Agreed but taxing profit is an incentive for companies to make technical losses. And don't get me on faux 'not for profit' companies. Yep. hence the need to redefine profit. I like the EU's idea that you have to justify why your accounts are overcomplicated, rather than the tax office try and unravel them. I think anything not directly associated with the running of the company should be defined as profit. So land banking becomes profit until such a time as that land is used within the business. That said, the more I write the more complications I see. and its easy to skip over these and say some expert would have to work that bit out. Hence why we ended up with VAT. Difficult to dodge, easy to calculate. |
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