Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,698
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Post by Steve on May 22, 2024 21:56:07 GMT
Just one example of how we let the most inappropriate people have lethal weapons and tragically they go killing children and their mother with them. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv22x97rk38o'The timescale of holding a gun license for five years without updated information is “too long”, a review has concluded.
Kelly Fitzgibbons, 40, and her daughters Ava and Lexi Needham, aged four and two, were shot dead by Robert Needham in Woodmancote, West Sussex, in March 2020.
A Domestic Homicide Review said Needham lied on his shotgun application to police about previous convictions and depression treatment.
It found that even after his dishonesty was discovered by police, he was granted a licence.'We need to consider revoking all licences unless the relevant authority can show it had an appropriate system for reviewing applications AND ongoing surveillance. |
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Post by montegriffo on May 22, 2024 22:21:57 GMT
Firearms licences are reviewed every year including a medical assessment.
Not sure about shotgun licences.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,698
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Post by Steve on May 23, 2024 7:32:13 GMT
I know a gun dealer, he says the whole system is in chaos. Incompetent and overloaded police assigned the role not doing their jobs and turning nasty on anyone that criticises them.
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Post by Orac on May 23, 2024 8:52:40 GMT
Does a conviction for any offense involving violence automatically disqualify you?
It's the simplest and most reliable / objective rule.
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Post by vinny on May 23, 2024 9:34:17 GMT
I don't know anyone with convictions for violence who have a licence.
And given the low number of murders with guns in our country, the system is not bad, but there is room for improvement.
It's other weapons like knives, and to an extent crossbows which are a significant problem.
And despite Dunblane, it was the Police who cocked up, not the rule book, which allowed Thomas Hamilton to have his pistols.
He was NOT a member of a gun club.
He had no reason to have those pistols.
His argument for having revolvers, was in case a semi automatic jammed.
If a semi automatic pistol jams, you strip it and clean it and if something is broken, you change a spring.
The only situation in civilian life, which a semi automatic jamming becomes a problem for the person holding it, is if that person is actively engaged in mass murder.
Thomas Hamilton planned the massacre a long time before he did it.
Shotgun certificates do now include a medical assessment due to the Southampton gunman, who was reissued his firearms certificate for a pump action shotgun, by a Police cock up.
Maybe a body specific to firearms licence applications might do a better job.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,698
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Post by Steve on May 23, 2024 12:03:06 GMT
With 'police cock up' featuring twice in your post and once in mine then yes a specific body couldn't do a worse job
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Post by vinny on May 23, 2024 13:36:26 GMT
A separate licensing organisation dedicated to one job and one job only, which liases with the Police and has the power to enter properties with the Police, and when necessary, confiscate and buyback.
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Post by Orac on May 23, 2024 13:59:33 GMT
I don't know anyone with convictions for violence who have a licence. I would lay small bar bet that this man had a prior conviction for a violent crime. |
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Post by totheleft on May 24, 2024 8:56:55 GMT
Another sad case of a legal gun owner killing someone or themselves.
Very sad case gun control should be tighter .
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Post by vinny on May 24, 2024 9:53:40 GMT
Firearm control should be based on the following:
Do you have a history of criminal violence or mental illness? Use background check to establish.
If yes, automatic disqualification, if no, next question.
Are you a member of a gun club, or a hunter?
If yes, two character references and doctor's reference.
If no, automatic disqualification.
What are your security arrangements in your house?
If no security arrangements exist, automatic disqualification.
Shotgun and smooth bore musket control: It's pretty pointless taking a shotgun to a range as it is not a precise weapon.
But pest control, hunting and clay pigeon shooting are good uses for a shotgun.
Muzzle loaded muskets are a pain in the arse tbh, too much cleaning for my liking.
But some people enjoy using them and a shotgun certificate applies to musket and blunderbuss owners who actually use their weapons.
As such there is no reason required for the ownership of a shotgun certificate.
Only good character is required.
If there's an arrest and prosecution for violence, full confiscation and compulsory buyback should be initiated.
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Post by Orac on May 24, 2024 10:29:38 GMT
Firearm control should be based on the following: Do you have a history of criminal violence or mental illness? Use background check to establish. If yes, automatic disqualification, if no, next question. Are you a member of a gun club, or a hunter? If yes, two character references and doctor's reference. If no, automatic disqualification. No. That just gives the authorities ;'dicking about' room. Suddenly having a headache becomes a mental illness. Or suddenly there can only be four gun clubs with six members each. Nobody starts just shooting people out of the blue - anyone who does this will have a history of violence. 99.9999% of the problem is avoided with one simple rule. |
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Post by vinny on May 24, 2024 10:50:19 GMT
Thomas Hamilton didn't start just shooting people out of the blue, he was kicked out of the Scouts, the local gun clubs wouldn't have him.
Without reason to have hand guns he applied for two .357 Magnums "In case the two Browning Hi Powers jammed".
He had no valid reason to own those guns and yet the Police fucked up and not only let him keep the 9mm's they gave him an extension to his certificate for two .357's.
It was lunacy on the part of the licence officer, but it happened.
I believe in gun ownership but it's a privilege not an automatic right.
The protection of the public has to come first.
If Hamilton's pistols had been taken away (as they should have been under pre 1997 legislation) a lot of lives would have been saved.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,698
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Post by Steve on May 24, 2024 10:58:35 GMT
Thomas Hamilton didn't start just shooting people out of the blue, he was kicked out of the Scouts, the local gun clubs wouldn't have him. Without reason to have hand guns he applied for two .357 Magnums "In case the two Browning Hi Powers jammed". He had no valid reason to own those guns and yet the Police fucked up and not only let him keep the 9mm's they gave him an extension to his certificate for two .357's. It was lunacy on the part of the licence officer, but it happened. I believe in gun ownership but it's a privilege not an automatic right. The protection of the public has to come first. If Hamilton's pistols had been taken away (as they should have been under pre 1997 legislation) a lot of lives would have been saved. well said |
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Post by Orac on May 24, 2024 11:00:25 GMT
The protection of the public has to come first. If protection against the possibility that the weapons may be misused is the first priority, then nobody should have a gun. You have a be more balanced - there are other competing priorities. |
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Post by vinny on May 24, 2024 11:12:32 GMT
I am balanced, I advocate the licence system.
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