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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2024 16:06:35 GMT
I don't know who else is interested enough about history to want to talk about any aspect of it here. If no one, then it will be just me and this thread will go nowhere, lol.
But in case anyone is interested enough in the subject to want to talk about it, I will pose three questions.
1. Which historical epoch do you most enjoy reading or learning about? For me it is the 20th century, especially the overlapping subjects of the Third Reich and WW2.
2. Which historical figure do you think you know most about? In my case I think it is Adolf Hitler.
3. This third question is chosen for its relevance to politics today - What lessons from history are most relevant today, and from which we can take guidance? The big one for me right now is that history repeatedly tells us that bullies take advantage of weakness and only respect strength. If you don't want to fight the bully, make sure you have a much bigger club than he has and he likely won't pick a fight with you.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2024 16:12:28 GMT
Has anyone read any biographies of significant people in history?
I have read biographies of Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco, Mao Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, Lloyd George, Charles De Gaulle, William Gladstone, King Henry VIII, and Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on May 7, 2024 22:23:34 GMT
I don't know who else is interested enough about history to want to talk about any aspect of it here. If no one, then it will be just me and this thread will go nowhere, lol. But in case anyone is interested enough in the subject to want to talk about it, I will pose three questions. 1. Which historical epoch do you most enjoy reading or learning about? For me it is the 20th century, especially the overlapping subjects of the Third Reich and WW2. 2. Which historical figure do you think you know most about? In my case I think it is Adolf Hitler. 3. This third question is chosen for its relevance to politics today - What lessons from history are most relevant today, and from which we can take guidance? The big one for me right now is that history repeatedly tells us that bullies take advantage of weakness and only respect strength. If you don't want to fight the bully, make sure you have a much bigger club than he has and he likely won't pick a fight with you. 1. Definitely the 20th century and how the world largely sleep walked into two appalling world wars and how they have left long lasting effects 2. Dunno, maybe the contradictions that were Harold Wilson, LBJ and Ian Paisley 3. Again contradictions: (a) that ignore wrong doing and eventually it comes and bites you really badly and (b) intervention in foreign lands often makes matters worse
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,698
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Post by Steve on May 7, 2024 22:24:38 GMT
Has anyone read any biographies of significant people in history? I have read biographies of Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco, Mao Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, Lloyd George, Charles De Gaulle, William Gladstone, King Henry VIII, and Napoleon Bonaparte. Sadly no but I applaud your reading of those.
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Post by Saint on May 7, 2024 23:31:36 GMT
Has anyone read any biographies of significant people in history? I have read biographies of Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco, Mao Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, Lloyd George, Charles De Gaulle, William Gladstone, King Henry VIII, and Napoleon Bonaparte. People tend to disagree on whether Napoleon was a hero or a villian. What's your opinion, Steve? I don't know much about him.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2024 23:56:23 GMT
Has anyone read any biographies of significant people in history? I have read biographies of Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco, Mao Zedong, Stalin, Lenin, Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, Lloyd George, Charles De Gaulle, William Gladstone, King Henry VIII, and Napoleon Bonaparte. People tend to disagree on whether Napoleon was a hero or a villian. What's your opinion, Steve? I don't know much about him. He was an egomaniac and power mad, and of course a dictator who conquered other peoples and set up puppet regimes over them. But then again at the time political freedom as we see it today barely existed anywhere, except the beginnings of it in the new USA. In Britain at the time only about 2 percent of the population had the vote. And most of our navy were recruited via press gangs, where discipline was maintained through brutal punishments. So we have to set him in the context of his age. He was feared by us not because he was any better or worse a leader than most others, but because he was so successful militarily that he represented an existential threat. He was certainly a military aggressor, but so were most leaders of powerful nations back then. India did not just fall into our laps after all. As far as tyranny was concerned he was not in anything like the same league as Hitler. He did not orchestrate mass murders or attempt genocide, nor starve prisoners to death. Domestically he introduced many reforms which were more positive than negative, and have stood the test of time, and brought to a close the turmoil of the revolutionary years. He also had the very human experience of genuinely loving a woman who showed every sign of not loving him back and who was repeatedly unfaithful to him and appeared to have a very high sex drive that he could not satisfy. Hitler by contrast probably loved no one except his mother whom he adored but who died when he was 19. Hitler was also a humourless individual, unless it took the form of sarcastic wit at the expense of his enemies. Napoleon on the other never tired of playing juvenile practical jokes on those around him at any opportunity.. Some French revere him for the greatness he brought to France, but his victories were bought with copious amounts of French blood. In short, he was a mixed bag, with both good points and bad points, but much of Europe lay prey to his armies and were looted to finance them. Resistance to French rule thus grew in the areas under his control which helped to ignite the beginnings of nationalist sentiments in places like Germany and Italy which were to bear fruit later.
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Post by Saint on May 8, 2024 10:08:38 GMT
People tend to disagree on whether Napoleon was a hero or a villian. What's your opinion, Steve? I don't know much about him. He was an egomaniac and power mad, and of course a dictator who conquered other peoples and set up puppet regimes over them. But then again at the time political freedom as we see it today barely existed anywhere, except the beginnings of it in the new USA. In Britain at the time only about 2 percent of the population had the vote. And most of our navy were recruited via press gangs, where discipline was maintained through brutal punishments. So we have to set him in the context of his age. He was feared by us not because he was any better or worse a leader than most others, but because he was so successful militarily that he represented an existential threat. He was certainly a military aggressor, but so were most leaders of powerful nations back then. India did not just fall into our laps after all. As far as tyranny was concerned he was not in anything like the same league as Hitler. He did not orchestrate mass murders or attempt genocide, nor starve prisoners to death. Domestically he introduced many reforms which were more positive than negative, and have stood the test of time, and brought to a close the turmoil of the revolutionary years. He also had the very human experience of genuinely loving a woman who showed every sign of not loving him back and who was repeatedly unfaithful to him and appeared to have a very high sex drive that he could not satisfy. Hitler by contrast probably loved no one except his mother whom he adored but who died when he was 19. Hitler was also a humourless individual, unless it took the form of sarcastic wit at the expense of his enemies. Napoleon on the other never tired of playing juvenile practical jokes on those around him at any opportunity.. Some French revere him for the greatness he brought to France, but his victories were bought with copious amounts of French blood. In short, he was a mixed bag, with both good points and bad points, but much of Europe lay prey to his armies and were looted to finance them. Resistance to French rule thus grew in the areas under his control which helped to ignite the beginnings of nationalist sentiments in places like Germany and Italy which were to bear fruit later. Very interesting, particularly the bits about his personality. I learnt recently, I think on a repeated QI, that he wasn't short. Not very profound, but interesting.
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Post by montegriffo on May 8, 2024 12:32:28 GMT
I am interested in many areas of history from the Neolithic to the 20th century. The medieval period is of particular interest and I never pass up the opportunity to visit castles. Beaumaris in Anglesey is a particular favourite.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2024 12:51:50 GMT
I have an interest in all periods of history, but do sometimes struggle to engage fully with the Medieval era for the simple reason that too much of it sometimes comes at me as a European monarchical soap opera revolving around which king was marrying which queen, and how the sons and other relatives of said monarchs were plotting and scheming against each other all the time. If you can wade beyond that it was often a period when lots of interesting things were happening - the growing power of the church, the beginnings of religious dissent which culminated in the reformation, the 100 years war, the beginnings of Parliament, Anglo Scottish and Anglo-Welsh friction, and so on.
Having some understanding of both our own past from any era, and the pasts of others as they interacted with us as well as the interchange of ideas like the forces leading to the reformation, and later the rise of industrialisation, faith in science, socialism, liberalism and democracy, all help broaden and deepen our understandings of politics today.
It remains a truism that the better we understand who we were and where we came from, the better we understand who we are today.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2024 13:16:08 GMT
He was an egomaniac and power mad, and of course a dictator who conquered other peoples and set up puppet regimes over them. But then again at the time political freedom as we see it today barely existed anywhere, except the beginnings of it in the new USA. In Britain at the time only about 2 percent of the population had the vote. And most of our navy were recruited via press gangs, where discipline was maintained through brutal punishments. So we have to set him in the context of his age. He was feared by us not because he was any better or worse a leader than most others, but because he was so successful militarily that he represented an existential threat. He was certainly a military aggressor, but so were most leaders of powerful nations back then. India did not just fall into our laps after all. As far as tyranny was concerned he was not in anything like the same league as Hitler. He did not orchestrate mass murders or attempt genocide, nor starve prisoners to death. Domestically he introduced many reforms which were more positive than negative, and have stood the test of time, and brought to a close the turmoil of the revolutionary years. He also had the very human experience of genuinely loving a woman who showed every sign of not loving him back and who was repeatedly unfaithful to him and appeared to have a very high sex drive that he could not satisfy. Hitler by contrast probably loved no one except his mother whom he adored but who died when he was 19. Hitler was also a humourless individual, unless it took the form of sarcastic wit at the expense of his enemies. Napoleon on the other never tired of playing juvenile practical jokes on those around him at any opportunity.. Some French revere him for the greatness he brought to France, but his victories were bought with copious amounts of French blood. In short, he was a mixed bag, with both good points and bad points, but much of Europe lay prey to his armies and were looted to finance them. Resistance to French rule thus grew in the areas under his control which helped to ignite the beginnings of nationalist sentiments in places like Germany and Italy which were to bear fruit later. Very interesting, particularly the bits about his personality. I learnt recently, I think on a repeated QI, that he wasn't short. Not very profound, but interesting. Hitler on the other hand actually was particularly short. Not that I think that tells us very much. He was an obsessive hypochondriac though in constant fear of his own death, until finally confronted with the fact that death was easier than anything else that might await him, which reality could no longer be delayed come April 30th 1945. In World War 2 one fact often goes unreported or underreported. The Germans in the field were liberally supplied with pervitin tablets which were essentially amphetamines. As well as increasing energy levels and allowing soldiers to function with much less sleep, amphetamines tend to increase pleasurable sensations, however dark, whilst greatly reducing moral inhibitions and at the same time increasing paranoia whilst the lack of sleep often can result in auditory and visual hallucinations. This is a heady cocktail which probably lay behind so many false accounts of civilians shooting at soldiers from behind. In essence they were hearing things whilst already in a hyper state making them prone to paranoia, and with any normal inhibitions greatly weakened, with sadistic pleasures made more enjoyable. This drug probably had a hand in the willingness with which so many ordinary German soldiers perpetrated horrendous atrocities, which after the war and no longer drugged up many went into denial about, also a typical reaction for anyone who has been involved in excesses when high on speed, when they have actually come down. The Russians on the other hand supplied their soldiers with liberal quantities of vodka, which allowed them to go into battle making suicidal charges because the alcohol did its usual thing of inhibiting their fears and enhancing their rage and bravado. Alcohol of course also greatly reduces inhibitions and no doubt amongst many other motivations contributed to the fact that in the European theatre of the war, only the Russians came close to the Germans in their everyday willingness to commit atrocities. The effects of alcohol on the Russians and speed on the Germans is a factor that needs to be better understood by historians of the war.
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Post by montegriffo on May 8, 2024 13:20:47 GMT
I think it is partly the fact that we're surrounded by the architecture of the period. Within 6 miles of where I live there are 3 castles and dozens of medieval churches, a ruined abbey and a 13th century fortified manor house.
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Post by montegriffo on May 8, 2024 13:30:13 GMT
Very interesting, particularly the bits about his personality. I learnt recently, I think on a repeated QI, that he wasn't short. Not very profound, but interesting. Hitler on the other hand actually was particularly short. Not that I think that tells us very much. He was an obsessive hypochondriac though in constant fear of his own death, until finally confronted with the fact that death was easier than anything else that might await him, which reality could no longer be delayed come April 30th 1945. In World War 2 one fact often goes unreported or underreported. The Germans in the field were liberally supplied with pervitin tablets which were essentially amphetamines. As well as increasing energy levels and allowing soldiers to function with much less sleep, amphetamines tend to increase pleasurable sensations, however dark, whilst greatly reducing moral inhibitions and at the same time increasing paranoia whilst the lack of sleep often can result in auditory and visual hallucinations. This is a heady cocktail which probably lay behind so many false accounts of civilians shooting at soldiers from behind. In essence they were hearing things whilst already in a hyper state making them prone to paranoia, and with any normal inhibitions greatly weakened, with sadistic pleasures made more enjoyable. This drug probably had a hand in the willingness with which so many ordinary German soldiers perpetrated horrendous atrocities, which after the war and no longer drugged up many went into denial about, also a typical reaction for anyone who has been involved in excesses when high on speed, when they have actually come down. The Russians on the other hand supplied their soldiers with liberal quantities of vodka, which allowed them to go into battle making suicidal charges because the alcohol did its usual thing of inhibiting their fears and enhancing their rage and bravado. Alcohol of course also greatly reduces inhibitions and no doubt amongst many other motivations contributed to the fact that in the European theatre of the war, only the Russians came close to the Germans in their everyday willingness to commit atrocities. The effects of alcohol on the Russians and speed on the Germans is a factor that needs to be better understood by historians of the war. The British also handed out amphetamines in the form of Benzedrine. www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/preview-world-war-speed/4337/#:~:text=On%20Secrets%20of%20the%20Dead,amphetamines%20in%20the%20military%20context.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2024 18:17:26 GMT
Hitler on the other hand actually was particularly short. Not that I think that tells us very much. He was an obsessive hypochondriac though in constant fear of his own death, until finally confronted with the fact that death was easier than anything else that might await him, which reality could no longer be delayed come April 30th 1945. In World War 2 one fact often goes unreported or underreported. The Germans in the field were liberally supplied with pervitin tablets which were essentially amphetamines. As well as increasing energy levels and allowing soldiers to function with much less sleep, amphetamines tend to increase pleasurable sensations, however dark, whilst greatly reducing moral inhibitions and at the same time increasing paranoia whilst the lack of sleep often can result in auditory and visual hallucinations. This is a heady cocktail which probably lay behind so many false accounts of civilians shooting at soldiers from behind. In essence they were hearing things whilst already in a hyper state making them prone to paranoia, and with any normal inhibitions greatly weakened, with sadistic pleasures made more enjoyable. This drug probably had a hand in the willingness with which so many ordinary German soldiers perpetrated horrendous atrocities, which after the war and no longer drugged up many went into denial about, also a typical reaction for anyone who has been involved in excesses when high on speed, when they have actually come down. The Russians on the other hand supplied their soldiers with liberal quantities of vodka, which allowed them to go into battle making suicidal charges because the alcohol did its usual thing of inhibiting their fears and enhancing their rage and bravado. Alcohol of course also greatly reduces inhibitions and no doubt amongst many other motivations contributed to the fact that in the European theatre of the war, only the Russians came close to the Germans in their everyday willingness to commit atrocities. The effects of alcohol on the Russians and speed on the Germans is a factor that needs to be better understood by historians of the war. The British also handed out amphetamines in the form of Benzedrine. www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/preview-world-war-speed/4337/#:~:text=On%20Secrets%20of%20the%20Dead,amphetamines%20in%20the%20military%20context. I didn't know that, thanks. Was it's use in the UK armed anywhere as extensive as it was in the Wehrmacht? In the German forces - especially during offensives or prolonged defensive actions it was the norm for almost everybody to be on the stuff. Was this the case in the UK forces?
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Post by montegriffo on May 8, 2024 21:52:16 GMT
I didn't know that, thanks. Was it's use in the UK armed anywhere as extensive as it was in the Wehrmacht? In the German forces - especially during offensives or prolonged defensive actions it was the norm for almost everybody to be on the stuff. Was this the case in the UK forces? The British copied the Nazis after finding Pervitin in a downed plane in 1940. The Battle of Britain was fought with both sides on various forms of speed. Cocaine and methamphetamines were experimented with for U-boat mariners and the armies of both sides used stimulants too.
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Post by Saint on May 8, 2024 23:48:22 GMT
Very interesting, particularly the bits about his personality. I learnt recently, I think on a repeated QI, that he wasn't short. Not very profound, but interesting. Hitler on the other hand actually was particularly short. Not that I think that tells us very much. He was an obsessive hypochondriac though in constant fear of his own death, until finally confronted with the fact that death was easier than anything else that might await him, which reality could no longer be delayed come April 30th 1945. In World War 2 one fact often goes unreported or underreported. The Germans in the field were liberally supplied with pervitin tablets which were essentially amphetamines. As well as increasing energy levels and allowing soldiers to function with much less sleep, amphetamines tend to increase pleasurable sensations, however dark, whilst greatly reducing moral inhibitions and at the same time increasing paranoia whilst the lack of sleep often can result in auditory and visual hallucinations. This is a heady cocktail which probably lay behind so many false accounts of civilians shooting at soldiers from behind. In essence they were hearing things whilst already in a hyper state making them prone to paranoia, and with any normal inhibitions greatly weakened, with sadistic pleasures made more enjoyable. This drug probably had a hand in the willingness with which so many ordinary German soldiers perpetrated horrendous atrocities, which after the war and no longer drugged up many went into denial about, also a typical reaction for anyone who has been involved in excesses when high on speed, when they have actually come down. The Russians on the other hand supplied their soldiers with liberal quantities of vodka, which allowed them to go into battle making suicidal charges because the alcohol did its usual thing of inhibiting their fears and enhancing their rage and bravado. Alcohol of course also greatly reduces inhibitions and no doubt amongst many other motivations contributed to the fact that in the European theatre of the war, only the Russians came close to the Germans in their everyday willingness to commit atrocities. The effects of alcohol on the Russians and speed on the Germans is a factor that needs to be better understood by historians of the war. Wow! Yeah, that would explain a lot.
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